‘Hurts when India calls protests internal affair of Bangladesh’: Nobel Laureate Muhammad Yunus

Nobel Laureate and Grameen Bank founder Professor Muhammad Yunus spoke to the Indian Express about the Second Liberation, the actions of the previous government and India's reaction to it.

During the interview he underlined the fact that the current situation was due to an "absence of democracy", while cautioning that the turmoil will "spill over" to the neighbouring countries as well.

He also mentioned that India's response to the protests, by calling it an internal matter, "hurts".

Below are excited excerpts from the interview:

I think it has a very simple explanation… it is the absence of democracy. There is no communication between the people and the government, because the government has not been elected for many, many years now, for three terms (in January, Sheikh Hasina secured a record fourth straight term in an election boycotted by the Opposition).

Today, the government feels that they are all powerful because they are all powerful. They control, I shouldn't say 'they', I should say 'she', because there is no 'they' here in Bangladesh. It is one country, one party, one leader, one narrative country. You cannot deviate from any one of these formulations. The moment you deviate from that, you're in serious trouble. I'm in trouble forever, since the Hasina government is in power.

They have called me names, starting from a "blood sucker", sucking the blood of the poor women in Bangladesh, and then "Sood-khor" (someone who lives off interest extracted from the poor). She doesn't mention my name any more. She just simply says "Sood-khor"… everybody instantly knows who she is talking about.

So to answer your question, it originates from a complete disappearance of communication between people and the government.

The government revolves around the people who do the reality check for her, and those who do the reality check for her present the reality to her in a more exaggerated version of what she likes to believe it is. She got trapped into it.

On his statement that the Bangladesh government is not elected

You should go and ask people who live in Bangladesh, did you vote? That's a simple thing. Just meet anybody. Did you vote in this election? Check random 10 people and see what answer you get.

On Hasina government's charge that Opposition was behind the protests

That is what the government says. The government is a lie-making factory, continuously lying and lying and lying, and they just start believing in their own lies. So this is their problem. They are prisoners of their own lies.

Bangladesh is a young country and an aspirational society, where have things gone wrong?

Bangladesh has 170 million people, and two-thirds are young people, and these are the two-third young people who never voted. They did not get the chance to cast their first vote… If they had voted, all these things would have been resolved.

So, the problem is the disappearance of democratic norms and protocols, rule of law, human rights, sharing views, freedom of writing, all disappeared completely… These young people are frustrated. They felt very strongly about the quota system. This is not the first time they are demonstrating against the quota system… But the government responded in a very insulting way, which incited the young people.

Whether there are foreigners involved, or intelligence agencies or opposition parties, you (the government) can make up all the fictions you want to feel immune from your shortcomings. Anybody can see the streets are full of police, full of army. How come opposition leaders and supporters are not captured by any camera. Are they invisible people? Instead, video cameras capture the police and military with guns shooting at students… Nobody sees the Jamaat (Jamaat-e-Islami Bangladesh) guy. But the government guys with guns are everywhere.

Why was the internet shut down? The Internet would have established the government's version by showing the videos to the world. The government could catch all those people in the videos, they can say — look, we got all those people in the videos. But the government shut it down because they were doing something which they didn't want the world to see. That's the only reason they didn't want people to communicate with the outside world. They took away their power to speak. They took away their demonstrations. They took away everything that the protesters were going to communicate with each other and the outside world

On India's response that the turmoil was Bangladesh's internal matter

I believe in the dream of SAARC. SAARC started with great enthusiasm, but disappeared. We want to have a friendly relationship with all member countries. We want to feel like a family, enjoy each other's company… like the European Union. We are a real family. So, when India says it's internal affairs, it hurts me. If there is a fire in the brother's house, how can I say it is an internal affair? Diplomacy has a much richer vocabulary than saying it is their internal affair.

If something is happening in Bangladesh, where 170 million people are angry with each other, youth are being killed by government bullets, law and order is disappearing, it doesn't need experts to tell that it won't be contained within the borders of Bangladesh, it will spill over to neighbours.

These are young people who will run away to neighbouring countries to protect themselves. It is a fire that we are playing with, it cannot be contained within. If it prolongs and takes turn towards more confrontations, spill over of people across the borders will be a natural outcome…. In peaceful times… (the migrants) are tolerated, but in politically charged times, they may present themselves in diversified unacceptable roles all across the borders.

Supporting Bangladesh to remain an ideal democratic peaceful country is in the best interest of all neighbouring countries. If Bangladesh develops political failures, that should worry the neighbours for their own peace.

So, what do you want India to tell Bangladesh?

India should applaud Bangladesh for every transparent election and do otherwise for deviating from transparent elections. We see elections held in India at regular intervals. Their success drives home what a failure we are. We blame India for not encouraging us to achieve this goal through the diplomatic channels. It pains us to see the opposite. We cannot forgive India for this.

Bangladesh is a very creative country. We did find our own solution by inventing a caretaker government, but that could not continue for obvious reasons (the system, in which a selected government took over during the transition from one elected government to another, was in place 1996-2008 and abolished by Hasina's party through a constitutional amendment in 2011). If anything else is not available, we can go back to the caretaker Government until we find a better formula. This formula will be needed by all SAARC countries.

Have you shared these concerns with anyone in the Indian government?

My relationship with Indian political leaders is more focussed on microcredit, entrepreneurship of the youth, social business. I have not discussed political issues. Now I feel that I should. I can discuss how our relationship can be improved for mutual benefit.

If there are elections in Bangladesh, would you want to participate? Will you contest elections?

No, I am not a politician. I don't want to get involved, because there are many capable political leaders. I need to stay with what I do. I want to inspire people, particularly the youth, to dedicate themselves to create a new global civilization based on three zeros: zero net carbon emissions, zero wealth concentration, and zero unemployment. That's what my life is dedicated to.

When are you planning to return to Bangladesh?

I have pre-organised programmes in various countries of Europe and Latin America till the end of August.